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	<title>Comments on: On Women, Narcissists, Servants and Success</title>
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	<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/</link>
	<description>Entrepreneurship, marketing, personal devlelopment</description>
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		<title>By: Ross Simmonds</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-13779</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Simmonds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-13779</guid>
		<description>Thomas,

I&#039;m 100% with you on this one. Upon graduation a lot of students are not sure how to portray themselves. Its a very thin line between under-selling and being a cocky SOB. Finding that mid-point is definitely difficult but without question - is achievable. It takes a lot of soul searching but if you can let your actions do the talking for you - You&#039;ll be better off down the stretch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m 100% with you on this one. Upon graduation a lot of students are not sure how to portray themselves. Its a very thin line between under-selling and being a cocky SOB. Finding that mid-point is definitely difficult but without question &#8211; is achievable. It takes a lot of soul searching but if you can let your actions do the talking for you &#8211; You&#8217;ll be better off down the stretch.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Winter</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12457</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12457</guid>
		<description>This post comes at a time when I&#039;ve been watching and wondering about a couple of very popular narcissists. I, too, admire the kind of quiet leader that you describe so am perplexed that someone who seems only to be interested in themselves could attract so many followers. Maybe, like me, many of them are just watching in horrified amazement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post comes at a time when I&#8217;ve been watching and wondering about a couple of very popular narcissists. I, too, admire the kind of quiet leader that you describe so am perplexed that someone who seems only to be interested in themselves could attract so many followers. Maybe, like me, many of them are just watching in horrified amazement.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Micah</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12455</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12455</guid>
		<description>Thought-provoking. For myself, there&#039;s a certain point after which I will basically write off anyone who&#039;s too much a self-aggrandizing jerk. I may maintain basic contact, especially in a professional way, but I will do absolutely nothing on my own to help them get ahead. I won&#039;t recommend them, I won&#039;t offer advice when I think I can help them. It&#039;s not even a conscious thing, they just don&#039;t make it into the network of &quot;people I care about.&quot;

At the same time, I struggle with the desire to minimize a lot of my accomplishments (it amuses me that a recent troll on my site criticized my having written about accomplishments recently--under a female pseudonym, though since it was a troll I don&#039;t know gender). I&#039;m applying to graduate school and learning to find that balance between being aware and confident and being obnoxious.

I prefer interacting with men and women who know what they have to offer but who don&#039;t irk me by constantly needing reassurance or by constantly bragging about their successes. Middle road. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought-provoking. For myself, there&#8217;s a certain point after which I will basically write off anyone who&#8217;s too much a self-aggrandizing jerk. I may maintain basic contact, especially in a professional way, but I will do absolutely nothing on my own to help them get ahead. I won&#8217;t recommend them, I won&#8217;t offer advice when I think I can help them. It&#8217;s not even a conscious thing, they just don&#8217;t make it into the network of &#8220;people I care about.&#8221;</p>
<p>At the same time, I struggle with the desire to minimize a lot of my accomplishments (it amuses me that a recent troll on my site criticized my having written about accomplishments recently&#8211;under a female pseudonym, though since it was a troll I don&#8217;t know gender). I&#8217;m applying to graduate school and learning to find that balance between being aware and confident and being obnoxious.</p>
<p>I prefer interacting with men and women who know what they have to offer but who don&#8217;t irk me by constantly needing reassurance or by constantly bragging about their successes. Middle road. <img src='http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matches Malone</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12432</link>
		<dc:creator>Matches Malone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12432</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in the entertainment industry, and the rules there are simple: There aren&#039;t any. I think it&#039;s most important to be yourself, actually, no matter what niche you&#039;re in, and if you&#039;re &quot;That guy,&quot; maybe that works for you....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in the entertainment industry, and the rules there are simple: There aren&#8217;t any. I think it&#8217;s most important to be yourself, actually, no matter what niche you&#8217;re in, and if you&#8217;re &#8220;That guy,&#8221; maybe that works for you&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: jskipburns</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12416</link>
		<dc:creator>jskipburns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12416</guid>
		<description>neat article and great response to it Mr. Fields, but what&#039;s really cool is the discussion that&#039;s coming up amongst the comments.  Nice job getting that going.

I totally concur with:
Tom
Lisa Robbins Young
Cathy (well that was a neat story)

I sort of concur with Joel D Canfield

It&#039;s tough and difficult, but just be yourself...unless you&#039;re a jerk by nature.  Then you should stop being yourself. Immediately.

skip &quot;not a jerk&quot; burns</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neat article and great response to it Mr. Fields, but what&#8217;s really cool is the discussion that&#8217;s coming up amongst the comments.  Nice job getting that going.</p>
<p>I totally concur with:<br />
Tom<br />
Lisa Robbins Young<br />
Cathy (well that was a neat story)</p>
<p>I sort of concur with Joel D Canfield</p>
<p>It&#8217;s tough and difficult, but just be yourself&#8230;unless you&#8217;re a jerk by nature.  Then you should stop being yourself. Immediately.</p>
<p>skip &#8220;not a jerk&#8221; burns</p>
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		<title>By: John Bardos</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12406</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bardos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12406</guid>
		<description>It is one thing to have confidence in your skills and abilities and market yourself in a favorable way and another to fabricate stories and bend the truth just to get the cash. 

I personally am getting a little tired of all the exaggerated claims. 

Book a meeting room at Harvard and you are a &#039;Harvard Lecturer&#039;

Never get a real job and you are &#039;self-employed my entire adult life.&quot;

Work in an English school and you are a &#039;linguistic expert.&quot;

The marketers selling ebooks and training programs are even more deceptive. &quot;Only for the first 50 signups.&quot; &quot;One time only.&quot; &quot;Demand on the servers was so high that it crashed.&quot; &quot;Sorry, I made a mistake on that last link and many of you emailed to say you couldn&#039;t register. Here it is again.&quot;

I think astute evaluators can see through those non-sense claims but there are a lot of gullible people ready to buy ebooks and training programs who are not. 

Is it okay to get the sale or job at any cost? Do the ends really justify the means?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is one thing to have confidence in your skills and abilities and market yourself in a favorable way and another to fabricate stories and bend the truth just to get the cash. </p>
<p>I personally am getting a little tired of all the exaggerated claims. </p>
<p>Book a meeting room at Harvard and you are a &#8216;Harvard Lecturer&#8217;</p>
<p>Never get a real job and you are &#8216;self-employed my entire adult life.&#8221;</p>
<p>Work in an English school and you are a &#8216;linguistic expert.&#8221;</p>
<p>The marketers selling ebooks and training programs are even more deceptive. &#8220;Only for the first 50 signups.&#8221; &#8220;One time only.&#8221; &#8220;Demand on the servers was so high that it crashed.&#8221; &#8220;Sorry, I made a mistake on that last link and many of you emailed to say you couldn&#8217;t register. Here it is again.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think astute evaluators can see through those non-sense claims but there are a lot of gullible people ready to buy ebooks and training programs who are not. </p>
<p>Is it okay to get the sale or job at any cost? Do the ends really justify the means?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Montville</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12394</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Montville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12394</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;ve heard the saying, &quot;If you haven&#039;t tooted your own horn, you haven&#039;t heard good music.&quot;?

It&#039;s hard to set yourself apart in a competitive environment and not everyone is suited to the entrepreneurial life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;ve heard the saying, &#8220;If you haven&#8217;t tooted your own horn, you haven&#8217;t heard good music.&#8221;?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to set yourself apart in a competitive environment and not everyone is suited to the entrepreneurial life.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12393</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12393</guid>
		<description>Thanks for introducing me to Clay Shirk!

I don&#039;t care for the self-aggrandizing arrogant jerks myself, but I didn&#039;t read Clay&#039;s post that way.  This sentence struck me as true:

&quot;To put yourself forward as someone good enough to do interesting things is, by definition, to expose yourself to all kinds of negative judgments, and as far as I can tell, the fact that other people get to decide what they think of your behavior leaves only two strategies for not suffering from those judgments: not doing anything, or not caring about the reaction.&quot;

Reminds me of college days.  In one class I got a B- because of my &quot;lack of participation&quot; (aka not speaking up).  That B Minus, amongst other Pass/Fail courses that semester really fouled up my overall GPA.

Fast forward a few years.  I&#039;m taking Econ 101 at a local university. The guys shout out the answers to the prof&#039;s questions so I quit raising my hand and started shouting out answers, too. I felt somewhat uncomfortable and the other girls clearly disapproved (stares, whispers, giggles, ignoring me, etc) but class participation was part of the grade and I wanted the best grade I could get.  

Was I a jerk? My female classmates might say yes.  My prof might well say no.  Who knows?  I learned my lesson, and got my A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for introducing me to Clay Shirk!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care for the self-aggrandizing arrogant jerks myself, but I didn&#8217;t read Clay&#8217;s post that way.  This sentence struck me as true:</p>
<p>&#8220;To put yourself forward as someone good enough to do interesting things is, by definition, to expose yourself to all kinds of negative judgments, and as far as I can tell, the fact that other people get to decide what they think of your behavior leaves only two strategies for not suffering from those judgments: not doing anything, or not caring about the reaction.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reminds me of college days.  In one class I got a B- because of my &#8220;lack of participation&#8221; (aka not speaking up).  That B Minus, amongst other Pass/Fail courses that semester really fouled up my overall GPA.</p>
<p>Fast forward a few years.  I&#8217;m taking Econ 101 at a local university. The guys shout out the answers to the prof&#8217;s questions so I quit raising my hand and started shouting out answers, too. I felt somewhat uncomfortable and the other girls clearly disapproved (stares, whispers, giggles, ignoring me, etc) but class participation was part of the grade and I wanted the best grade I could get.  </p>
<p>Was I a jerk? My female classmates might say yes.  My prof might well say no.  Who knows?  I learned my lesson, and got my A.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel D Canfield, Business Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12390</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel D Canfield, Business Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12390</guid>
		<description>Had this same conversation on Scott Berkun&#039;s blog, and I&#039;ll repeat what I said there: Maybe I’m missing a subtlety here, but it seems to me Shirky is saying that, since women don’t usually succumb to those extreme versions of self-promotion as naturally as men do, they are also less likely to make artful use of the beneficial and positive versions of those bad behaviours.

I think it’s horrific to think of a world where women try to be more like men. I’m powerfully in favor of a world where men try to be more like women.

Perhaps it&#039;s my huge respect for Shirky&#039;s writing and thinking that makes me look for an understanding that fits better than the literal and extreme interpretation many have given his comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had this same conversation on Scott Berkun&#8217;s blog, and I&#8217;ll repeat what I said there: Maybe I’m missing a subtlety here, but it seems to me Shirky is saying that, since women don’t usually succumb to those extreme versions of self-promotion as naturally as men do, they are also less likely to make artful use of the beneficial and positive versions of those bad behaviours.</p>
<p>I think it’s horrific to think of a world where women try to be more like men. I’m powerfully in favor of a world where men try to be more like women.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s my huge respect for Shirky&#8217;s writing and thinking that makes me look for an understanding that fits better than the literal and extreme interpretation many have given his comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/on-women-narcissists-servants-and-success/#comment-12389</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonathanfields.com/blog/?p=2877#comment-12389</guid>
		<description>I hate to go against the consensus here, but there is definitely a place for jerk-dome. Maybe you could call it confidence, maybe sense of self. 

My situation is I am nice, thoughtful, kind. I am not appreciated because I do not demand to be appreciated. People don&#039;t know how great I am, because I don&#039;t tell them. 

In business, I often feel like I&#039;m swimming with sharks. This is where the benefit of being a jerk comes into play. Posturing and strutting feels so fake to me, but when I have a short time to make an impression I need to put on an act of bravado, even if that is not my nature. To display my accommodating nature means I will be taken advantage of, by people who really are jerks.

So, I am sorry to say, I do agree with Clay Shirky. In the short term, acting like a jerk benefits the jerk. If you want to get ahead, you&#039;ve got to be willing to go for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to go against the consensus here, but there is definitely a place for jerk-dome. Maybe you could call it confidence, maybe sense of self. </p>
<p>My situation is I am nice, thoughtful, kind. I am not appreciated because I do not demand to be appreciated. People don&#8217;t know how great I am, because I don&#8217;t tell them. </p>
<p>In business, I often feel like I&#8217;m swimming with sharks. This is where the benefit of being a jerk comes into play. Posturing and strutting feels so fake to me, but when I have a short time to make an impression I need to put on an act of bravado, even if that is not my nature. To display my accommodating nature means I will be taken advantage of, by people who really are jerks.</p>
<p>So, I am sorry to say, I do agree with Clay Shirky. In the short term, acting like a jerk benefits the jerk. If you want to get ahead, you&#8217;ve got to be willing to go for it.</p>
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