She mentioned she sometimes gets what she considered a great compliment, that her teaching presence reminds people of mine. She then described me as being very “charismatic” when I taught.

Insert spit-take. It’s funny for two reasons…

One, I’m not (and, no, I’m not fishing for compliments). I don’t have a high-energy, motivational speaker style, but more of a chill storytelling, bordering on snark approach. When I taught yoga, I did it in old jeans and a t-shirt. It was always more about the content and conversation.

I like campfires over hoe-downs.

And two, when you meet me “off-stage,” I tend toward introversion. For those who like data, I’m an INFJ on the Myers-Briggs Type Index, the “I” standing for introversion.

One of my more recent discoveries is that I love to speak. After I’m done wanting to throw up in the minutes before I go on, I feel very alive on stage. Something happens and I get lost in the moment. Not always, but often.

That used to happen all the time when I was teaching yoga, too. Ninety minutes would pass in the blink of an eye. I could have a raging headache before I taught, but once I was in the room, interacting, playing, dancing, ranting, chanting, storytelling, occasionally swearing, asking and answering questions, all was good in the world.

And in that moment, whatever the setting, it’s literally like someone just flipped my extrovert switch.

But, here’s the thing…when I’m done, I’m done. Cooked.

I don’t want to work the room. Just the opposite. I need to steal away for a bit, ground and reconnect to the source. Away from people, if possible. If I’m near water, a walk along it is where you’ll find me. Maybe with a friend or two, but more likely alone. I’m capable of staying public for a time after, it’s just not what fills me up.

For a long time, I viewed this as something that needed fixing…

I thought I needed to find a way to find and then flip on my extrovert switch, be the life of the conversation not just during, but all around those short bursts of mass-engagement. That’s where “real” success, big deals, killer influence and impact, big things come from.

There’s so much mythology built around the need to “get out there and be a blazing ray of light” as fundamental element of success. I’m guessing that’s due, at least in part, to the fact that, classically, the people most of us associate with massive success are the ones who are the most fun for the media to cover. They get the most ink, air and screen time, so they’re the most in our faces.

But, they don’t speak for all people or represent that entire class of people out in the world doing great work, making great things and living well in the world. As a mounting wave of counter-culture freaks, geeks and technology stars, many of whom tend strongly toward introversion, take an increasing share of the public’s attention, it seems the age-old assumed relationship between extroversion and success is beginning to degrade.

Still, for so long, I wanted to be the eternal glow in the room. But every time I tried to go to and then stay in that place longer than I should’ve been there, I’d end up feeling like someone just stuck a massive life-force hypodermic into my soul and sucked every ounce out.

It’s taken years, but I’m finally making peace with the idea that it’s okay to jump out into the spotlight for a bit, long enough for me to connect, share ideas, make a difference and love the experience, then retreat to refuel and spend the larger part of my time not with large groups, but either with one or a small number of people. Or even alone.

Because that’s who I am. And, like the great sage Dr. Seuss once said, “those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.”

Curious, what’s your interaction M.O.? Your experience with the limelight, big rooms or small groups?

Do you believe that the biggest successes most often go to the biggest extroverts?

Does working the spotlight fill you up or empty you out?

And, if the latter, what do you do to refuel?

This post is about something more personal, something I did a bit different in Portland.

Something that helped me reframe an experience that often scares me in a new light…

I love speaking, but I’m always pretty nervous before I go on. Which is why I’m usually nowhere to be found in the minutes leading up to a keynote. Plus, the setting for my talk was the Fields Ballroom at the Portland Art Museum and Chris had titled my talk “Jonathan Fields Reveals His Greatest Work Ever.”

I know, nothing like adding to the pressure than speaking to a group of 500 people in a room that bears your family name, after a weekend of deeply-moving presentations with the promise if revealing your greatest work ever. Easy peasy!

I don’t take much on stage with me when I speak.

One of the things I learned, taking depositions and investigative testimony as an enforcement attorney for the S.E.C., was to distill everything into a few key ideas and take and only a brief reminder of where the conversation needed to go into the room. Usually just a piece of paper with a few key concepts jotted on it.

Doing that forces you to listen, to converse, rather than preach. And I rarely ever hold it or even refer to to once I’m up and running. It’s just my insurance policy, in case I lose my place…or my mind…while on stage and camera.

But, this time, I took something else on stage…

You can see it in the picture above. It was resting on the monitor, right next to my far less important notes.

A heart, drawn for me by my daughter, before I left.

It was a reminder of what really mattered, no matter what happened on stage.

A visual prompt that even if I messed up…in a ballroom with my family name…in front of 500 people…awaiting my greatest work ever…to be immortalized in a later documentary…I’d still come home to giant hugs and lots of kisses.

That the most important role in my life, beyond husband, brother, son and friend, would be unaffected by what happened over the next hour.

And, it was a reminder that the greatest thing I could share with others is that same sense that when you bring yourself to the world from a heart-centered place, everything else is icing.

I’ve danced around the issue in the past. But a recent brilliant post entitled—The Short Sweet Guide to Being Fucking Awesome—by my friend Julien Smith, the co-author of New York Times bestselling Trust Agents, made me revisit it and explore it on a deeper level.

It’s about language, transparency, attention and connection. More specifically, it’s about the word…breath in, breath out…fuck. And a variety of other words that freak people out.

It’s about the intentional mismatch we create between our online personas and who we really are. About how real we’re willing to get in the digital word, in the consulting world, in the speaking world and any other world where our psychic red markers rise up and say, “should you really be going there?”

It’s about one of the reasons this is my favorite work of art from GapingVoid.com’s Hugh MacLeod, but it’s not hanging on my office wall. It’s about why we censor and what it does both to us and to our ability to feel fully expressed, attract more attention, build business and connect on a different level…or not.

So, I figured who better to hash this out with than Julien, the guy who got the conversation re-kickstarted in my head.

So, without further ado, here’s this week’s Getting Real

web show—Featuring Julien Smith

Listen to or download the audio mp3/podcast version

Click here to jump to the comments…

————————————————————————

Check out Julien Smith’s and Chris Brogan’s New York Times bestselling book, Trust Agents, for a deeper understanding of what’s driving next-gen interactions and business and how to better tap social technology to engage, build trust and become the go-to person or company in your market.

But don’t stop there, be sure to also check out Julien’s blog for up to minute dispatches from that uber-cool place also known as Julien’s brain.

———————SHOW TRANSCRIPT———————

Jonathan Fields: Hey guys, Jonathan Fields here and I’m presently hanging out with Julien Smith on the other end of my Skype line here. Where you have been, you are over at Canada, right?

Julien Smith: Yeah. Montreal.

Jonathan Fields: Very nice. Okay. So, why is it snowing in New York City right now? Are you getting snow there?

Julien Smith: Yeah. Well, it’s not today. We got it a couple of nights ago, but we were really sure that spring was coming.

Jonathan Fellds: Yeah.

Julien Smith: And then…

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. And a buddy of mine told me it was just 70 degrees and sunny in Colorado so not too happy.

Julien Smith: Yeah. [Laughs] Exactly.

Jonathan Fields: We paid more taxes; we’re supposed to get more sun, what’s up with that? All right. So why we’re hanging out today? So for those of you that have been living under a rock, Julien is a very cool dude, insanely bright, and writes some really provocative, insanely… You know, it’s funny I’ve been rallying against people using different words that are so watered on the blog, but when they actually said that you’re transparent and authentic, you’re one of the few guys who actually, it’s not a bullshit word when I say that.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: It’s like you really are. So a couple of weeks ago, you dropped this post that was titled, “A Short Sweet Guide to Being Fucking Awesome.”

Julien Smith: Right. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And the post blew me away, absolutely. I mean I love everything you write, but this post I was like this is just spot on, man. There’s like a zillion comments, it got passed around all over the place and then it was funny because I went to share that post.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And I opened up my Twitter. Like, I’m going to paste it in there and I’m like, do I hit the button or not ’cause it’s got the F bomb in the middle of the title. And I’m like I love the post, I love the sentiment, I love what you write. It’s like dead on, but is this — how does my — how do my tribe, how are my different tribes going to respond to this.

Julien Smith: Right.

Jonathan Fields: And they were hanging out. We caught up at South by Southwest and having this conversation about like where is that line there. So, I want to circle back and sort of like — and talk that through but… And you know like looking back through that and I was just getting back through some of your recent posts also and you use the language very liberally. I mean you just like –

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: So, you know, the big open question is, do you sensor?

Julien Smith: I mean I still have an internal sensor, definitely. I know where the line is. I don’t know if I told you this story, but a friend of mine met Hans Rosling who does these TED Talks with all the bubbles and talking about graphics and stuff like that. And he said, I — Hans Rosling said, “On my TED Talk here’s what happens. I swear a little bit, traffic increases, I swear a little bit traffic increases, I swear a little bit” and then he says, “and then there’s a drop off. I swear too much and everything drops and everybody hates me.” And he goes, “I know where that line is and I’m actually figuring out where that line is.” So it is a conscious use of it and there is a theory behind it. It’s not just reckless, but it came out of a real — like that’s really how I speak. So –

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: I also do a lot of radio so I don’t have to speak that way. But to myself and to friends, I speak that way. So it’s just sort of a conscious increase of the use to see as an experiment what would happen.

Jonathan Fields: Right. So it’s kind of fascinating, right? Because I mean I speak very differently than I write on the blog. I mean I write kind of –

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: — conscious on the blog, but there are many times where I would be, you know, like using all sorts of language in real life with close friends and people like that that really I pull back on the blog. And it’s funny because my concern is always, you know, if I was starting over as a blogger right now, I would probably do it differently. I would probably just a lot more open. I would probably –

Julien Smith: Right.

Jonathan Fields: — write the way that you write because that’s largely how I speak when I’m just being who I am.

Julien Smith: Correct.

Jonathan Fields: Like I wonder if I’m… You know, the question for me is am I creating a false impression of who I am and what I’m really about by censoring that way.

Julien Smith: I don’t think so. I have to tell you like I’ve done — like I said, I’ve been on traditional radio and I’ve been on — I’ve created content for a long time where my audio content was that way because obviously, I was speaking so there was no way to censor it. You know, I was just like it was a very personal podcast at the time so I just spoke that way. But as time goes on and you become sort of more comfortable with the way that things are online, they know that you’re going to swear in person. I don’t think it’s hypocritical to write that way. Everybody writes that way and everybody speaks and swears. So it’s totally fine, but the way that I see it is it is a lesson in authenticity. There are very few censors that we have left, but everybody knows that that particular censor exists. So when they see people break through it, they go, “He must be telling the truth.” And so I actually gain from — in my opinion, I gain from it. I’m sure I’ve lost — I’m sure people –

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: — think it’s stupid. I’m okay with that.

Jonathan Fields: So that’s kind of — and what you’re saying is there’s a reason that you do it. Your madness that’s part of what’s behind it then.

Julien Smith: It is like — like, you know, for years like we would — before [0:04:54] [Indiscernible] agents came out; you know you publish your first book and you’re freaking out. You’re like this is will stand for me for two years or more. Who knows what –

[0:05:02]

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: — will happen afterward. So you’re really trying to make –

Jonathan Fields: Or two days depending on…

Julien Smith: Yeah. You know.

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: So I did a lot of research, studied a lot about behavior and how people think about things. And I finally came to grips with sort of a conclusion, which is the same way that everybody is heading towards the internet versus let’s say traditional publishing and they’re heading towards let’s say podcasting instead of traditional radio, they’re also building towards more and more closeness. Like the ability to share things, ability to post drunken pictures on Facebook and it’s less and less of a big deal. So we’re increasingly casual and the result of that is that we are increasingly okay with swearing, some of us more, some of us less.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: So I just decided — I looked at the path, I saw the end of the path and where that door is and I just decided to walk through that door today.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: — five years from now.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s kind of interesting for me because it’s something that I’m dealing with on a pretty regular basis as I blog and also as I… We were talking a little bit before we got on the air here about, you know, one of the things that I’m looking to do is I’m transitioning out of the consulting side of my business and I’m putting a big effort into moving into speaking. So as I think about that, you know, as I think about how I want to build my presence, my reputation, my brand in that world, it’s like I’m revisiting this whole thing all over again.

I remember Gary V like a year or two ago, maybe two years ago, you know, he put — there was like a blog post. I remember he put up somewhere. He’s like, “Yes, I actually can give a talk without cursing.”

Julien Smith: Absolutely.

Jonathan Fields: And because — but he said it like he would have to push back with people who were like booking him and saying, I’m actually physically capable of not just like dropping F bombs all over the place. I don’t have to do that. I do it because I feel comfortable and it’s the right audience for it, and, you know, it’s a way for me to connect with them.

Julien Smith: That’s right. So the counter point to that it’s really interesting because there’s not a lot of people out there that do that. Gary V is one of them, I’m one of them, and there’s a few more but not very many. And it’s really interesting because it becomes the thing.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: You just — every conversation becomes about, oh, this guy swears during the talks or this guys swears.

Jonathan Fields: Yes.

Julien Smith: And actually I’ve totally gotten used to that and so I really — I don’t know, maybe it’s like I’ve developed thinking about it as a strategy now. But you discover when you begin to use it, people are like, “Oh my god, he’s doing it. We’re seeing the real him.” And so, you know, we haven’t sworn once during this conversation. Maybe at one point, we will, I don’t know. But the –

Jonathan Fields: We can set it out –

Julien Smith: Gary knows. Gary knows what he’s doing.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: And once — So it is a strategy like another. You know, like top ten lists sort of strategy on your blog.

Jonathan Fields:          Yeah.

Julien Smith: You post the top ten list and then that will become overused. Okay, well now it’s a top eleven list instead so it’s not a top ten. So it’s a development of strategy one after another after another.

So to answer your consulting point, which is very interesting to me. So as I told you before on the call that I just came back from a meeting. And so this is the guy’s list. It says, meeting Julien Smith on top, meeting Julien Smith and he just got a list of things. And so he says, our interest in your help is bring a new and interesting angle to the story, your transparency and honesty and then the final one says, your notoriety. It actually says that as an advantage because — I don’t even know why. Like maybe that it’s — Maybe it’s that they know that I’ll tell them the truth.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: That I won’t lie to them and say well your whole content is bullshit, which I don’t think that but the point is I could. If I thought that, I would genuinely say so. So I’ll be like, do you want to talk?

Jonathan Fields: Yes.

Julien Smith: And that’s what Gary V says, same thing. He is the most popular example of being able to do that. I think it will happen on television, I think it will happen in radio, I think it will happen everywhere.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. Well –

Julien Smith: It will become totally normal.

Jonathan Fields: No. I mean I’m old enough to remember like in the early days when “NYPD Blue” came on the air and for the first time, they showed like a guy’s, you know, naked buttocks. And it was like this –

Julien Smith: Yeah. And –

Jonathan Fields: — crazy ass like firestorm and, you know, people are going nuts and they want to shut down the station. And now it’s like — You know, like it’s the stupidest thing, but it is an interesting progression, right. But it’s interesting what you said about how — You know, like it creates this impression that because you’re willing to cross that line that you will actually be honest and forthcoming in a way that probably a lot of other people will just, you know, meet with somebody and blow smoke up their ass because they want their money. But maybe they’ll look at you and say that’s not Julien. It’s not — You know, –

Julien Smith: Right.

Jonathan Fields: He’s a guy who just goes out there and says what he needs to say and says what’s on his mind and he’s really freaking smart. So, you know, and like and I want that.

[0:10:00]

Julien Smith: So do you want to see the result of this? ‘Cause the result of this is GQ magazine emails me and says that they want my content. And Cosmopolitan magazine emails me and says that they want my content. And that’s from a — You know, it’s funny like ’cause on C.C. Chapman who maybe some people who are listening to this know published a book called, “The Content Rules” or “Content Rules.”

Jonathan Fields: Yes, right.

Julien Smith: And I laughed at him ’cause I said — You know, I was like all social media douchebags are now rephrasing themselves and becoming content strategists.

Jonathan Fields:          Right, right, right.

Julien Smith: And so and it’s true. It’s the next thing. It’s like –

Jonathan Fields: It’s the evolution.

Julien Smith: — everybody’s finally… That it’s not just every day we have to be on Twitter but we have on Twitter and provide good content.

Jonathan Fields: Right. Well, I’m fairly convinced that’s why nobody carries business card at Sotheby. People are like, “Oh, it’s just not cool anymore.” I’m like, “No actually, like you’re changing what you call yourself so quickly –”

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: That nobody actually –

Julien Smith: That’s totally true.

Jonathan Fields: — wants to spend money on cards. ‘Cause you get them and use them for more than like six minutes.

Julien Smith: So I never thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense. ‘Cause then you never define yourself as anything.

Jonathan Fields: Right, exactly.

Julien Smith: Yeah. You know, like, oh, I have that old card that says –

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: What am I going to say? So… God, what were we talking about?

Jonathan Fields: So –

Julien Smith: Oh, yeah. So the point is that content that pushes the envelope gets seen and spread disproportionately lots.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: So it doesn’t matter if it pushes the envelope even 1% or 5%, you never want to push the envelope 100%. And you’ll notice that there’s very few things — I will never target an individual and I’ll never target a group. I mean I target social media people occasionally, but I’m in that industry so maybe that’s okay. I don’t know. But there’s a reason for that. First of all, the strategy does not target and go and say, you’re an asshole, you’re an asshole. It says in fact it usually calls upon the individual reading and says, you have a problem and so they self-identify with it.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: I never tell them you’re an idiot. Instead, I say, if you are doing this then you should be doing this. Or if you’re — You know, the thing about the Cult of Awesome, it asks them to self-identify whether they’re awesome or not.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: And whether they should be awesome or whether or not they’re… You know, the point is, it doesn’t insult anyone.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. But the thing is also you do it in a way where it’s — and you could tell me whether this is an accurate perception or not — where it feels organic. It feels like this is just like Julien, like this is who you are, it comes pretty naturally. You just write.

Julien Smith: Uh-hum.

Jonathan Fields: You know, and — But that’s an art form. I mean it’s not easy to do. There aren’t a lot of people that could step out and sort of I think do it. And I think –

Julien Smith: But that’s — John, that’s crazy that you’re saying that because if it is the person that you are, then why is it –

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. No–

Julien Smith: — so hard to be that person?

Jonathan Fields: No. You know what I think it is? What I was trying to say very inarticulately is that you bring so much extraordinary value to sort of the language that you use and the way you frame it and I think a lot of people have a lot trouble finding that balance.

Julien Smith: Maybe.

Jonathan Fields: And you know maybe they just don’t have enough to say so they’re using, you know, just like dropping curses left and right because they’re just doing it for shock factor. I think — you know,

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: Things get spread around a lot more. You know, there’s — I wrote a couple of years ago for Brian over on Copyblogger blog a post called Trainwreck blooging. And it was all about how much people who were just like, you know, had this crazy, messed up disaster of lives and people loved reading. And they’re usually transparent about their lives.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And, you know, it was the content and the fact that they were actually out there and the fact that people — You know, like it made people feel good about the fact that their lives are really messed up, but not that messed up.

Julien Smith: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: Yeah, exactly.

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs] But, you know, this is — I think using, you know, like swearing in your content is an art form. You know?

Julien Smith: Sure.

Jonathan Fields: I think doing it, you know. So what I was trying to say is you do it in a way which is really compelling also, which is so well bundled with the value on like really provocative thought leadership that it’s really easy to buy into it. So my guess is there a whole bunch of people where if they were in a conversation and somebody else was standing and like dropping the equivalent, you know, like ratio of –

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: — you know, like F bombs and stuff like that in the conversation –

Julien Smith: Right.

Jonathan Fields: — they would be horrified. They’d be like, “Screw this, I’m out of here. This person is like vulgar and disgusting.” But then they’ll turn around and read your stuff and they’ll be like freaking genius.

Julien Smith: This guy is amazing.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: So, of course, you’re right. But internally the process, the internal conversation that occurs when you’re creating that content — I mean you create it with yours too. Like you have those internal barriers and you know where they are.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: They’re just different from where mine are. Right?

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: But you’ve still created them. So, I remember the first time, you know, James Chartrand from –

Jonathan Fields: Yeah, yeah, right.

Julien Smith: — Copyblogger. Have you met this person?

Jonathan Fields: Uh-hum. Yes.

Julien Smith: You have? Okay.

Jonathan Fields: Uh-huh.

[0:15:00]

Julien Smith: So this — any window will become clearer if you do envision what’s on the other end.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith:               So we got together and we chatted one time, you know. So one time about a week after that, it was in November or December and I was having this crazy week with contents where I put out a post called “The Quick 12-Step Guide to Quitting That Job You Fucking Hate.”

Jonathan Fields: [Chuckles]

Julien Smith: But with the — the sort of gibberish as the title.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah, yeah, right.

Julien Smith: You know, when you shift and like all the numbers. So, I remember I published it. I was like it just came out one morning. I was sitting in this exact place where I work when I wake up, and I was like this is going to be really interesting to see how it flies. And immediately, something like 250 Facebook likes, which is disproportionate–

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: — for how much ’cause they look at it and it’s actually really interesting. If you put a Facebook or a Twitter button right next to the word “fucking” people just they’re like, “oh my god!”

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: Excited with –

Jonathan Fields: You know, I’m going to have to test that though. [Laughs]

Julien Smith: I recommend it, you know. So I’m giving away all my secrets here.

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: So when you put it in the title, like something immediately happened. Because people see it on Facebook or they see it on Twitter and they go, “Oh my god,” you know. You should see the number of Facebook and Twitter likes that’s on that post now, it’s sitting around 3000. Yeah.

So my point is that I remember breaking through that barrier and I was talking with James and I have a post… I’m not going to say the title of the post, which came a few after that. You can look for it in November or December. It’s easily the most offensively title post I’ve ever written. And I called James and I said, “You know, you should — I’m going to publish this post and it is this and it is that” and I was having this crazy week with content where I was testing and seeing what would happen if I did this and if did parodies and all these things. I was like, I’m having the most unbelievable traffic week, People are coming out of the woodwork and saying that they love me. I was like, this is really strange and I realized that all I was doing was being who I authentically actually am. So this old version of myself who existed in podcasting and who existed in all of these places was simply coming back. It wasn’t like a fake me or anything like that. And I –

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: And so James said, “Oh my god, you’re not actually going to post that, are you?” And now we’re talking about it so much that people are going to be like… And they’ll go check it and it will go viral again ’cause that’s what happens. Because James says, “Oh it’s going to go viral, I know it. It’s going to go viral” and then sure enough, I pressed post and it’s like… It becomes this explosion and this is a really offensive post with an offensive title and people were discussing it. Some people were offended.

So the point of that internal wall and passing that internal wall is difficult no matter where that wall is. No matter if it’s saying fucking in the title or no matter if it’s just going, you know, I’m going to talk about religion in this post and I know some people would disagree with that or something.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: Everybody has that thing. But the point is that as soon as you pass that, it’s only then that that content becomes disproportionately spread.

Jonathan Fields: Right. Now –

Julien Smith: So –

Jonathan Fields: And it’s interesting because I’m at that point right now where I sort of like in my personal brand and my content and stuff like that, like I have to make a decision. You know, I have to make a decision whether I want to go there.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: Because also it would be so different from the brand that I’ve built for the last three years.

Julien Smith: That’s right.

Jonathan Fields: So then I know. There are going to be a chunk of people that have been just sort of bouncing around with me for a while there, they’re like, hmm, this isn’t what I signed up for. But then, you know, like the flipside is then I get to be real then I also get to be — or more real. It’s not like you’ve been false –

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: — but I just haven’t been… You know, I haven’t let as much of me show.

Julien Smith: Right. But actually, you have parts of you that I would never show. Like you’re like this happened with my family or with my biz and that and that. And I’m like, there’s no way that I’m — you know,

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: So we get different levels of comments.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith:               I get comments like, “you’re a big wuss, stop talking about, you know, flowers and puppy dogs” or something. And I would get the opposite where people just there’s like this backlash of how dare you talk to me this way. But we’re just speaking to a different audience that have different internal values.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: But, you know, your people might very well swear like –

Jonathan Fields: Right. And –

Julien Smith: — it’s not–

Jonathan Fields: That’s the thing. It’s like I mean I’m making this big assumption that, you know, because — And also I have developed this tremendous comment community. Like bloggers left and right are shutting off their comments because they’re like, “Oh, they’re people who are just trying to scam like link juice. They’re trying to like you know just…”

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: Whatever it is. And I’m like, you know, what actually so many times the comment section of my blog just like completely dusts the value of the post itself.

Julien Smith: Oh, I know. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And I’m like, how can I turn that off. I’ve learned so much from them, but also I’ve curated that and sort of cultivated that sort of comment community that is very much in line with the brand that I’ve laid out on the blog.

[0:20:02]

So I wonder how many of those people are holding back who they really are in the comments because they see me sort of setting a certain tone on the blog. I’m like how would that whole community and ethic change, you know, if I just opened up and started showing like ranting a little bit more and being a little bit –

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: — using the language that I use every day with my friends. So I think it is worth testing at least for me and just kind of see –

Julien Smith: Definitely.

Jonathan Fields: — how I feel about it. You know, it’s like I have to push that boundary personally.

Julien Smith: You feel like you — It’s like because it is… I just had a realization. I posted about it the other day. Of course, everyone ignores it. That all conversation is simply highly targeted contents. So the reason Gary V is successful is because he’s creating a tiny bit of content for one person, for example Jonathan Fields, which takes about 15 seconds to type into Twitter.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: And so Jonathan Fields receives it and he goes this is content meant directly for me.

Jonathan Fields: Uh-hum.

Julien Smith: So of course you eat it up. Right?

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: So the developments of all kinds of content including conversation becomes about targeting either somebody in an extremely effective targeted way or targeting as many people as possible within a given mindset.

Jonathan Fields: Uh-hum.

Julien Smith: And so I know that I speak to a field of people, which is very vast. You know, like there’s — A huge number of people it’s like the personal development… It just offends even to use those words. But you have no choice but to speak to a really tough audience, a really jilted and sort of jaded audience that has heard this and has heard that and this is nothing new and that’s nothing new using something different.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: So whatever blogger you are, you have to either be more targeted or you have to become more memorable in a different way.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: So it’s a really challenging thing.

Jonathan Fields: Yes.

Julien Smith: You know.

Jonathan Fields: And what’s interesting to me is too and this is… You know, I owned a yoga center for seven years and I taught yoga. So I was like sitting and walking around with bare feet teaching yoga and talking about all sorts of spiritual things. And it wasn’t unusual for me to be like sitting there in a packed room of students and we’re like 45 minutes into a 90-minute class.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And I’ll be like — You know, and I’ll just be like get a fucking life people.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: And people are like… And half the people start cracking up and four people –

Julien Smith: You felt it just now, didn’t you?

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: You felt the wall literally as you were doing it.

Jonathan Fields: I did.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: It’s like bam.

Julien Smith: Uh-huh.

Jonathan Fields: But you know –

Julien Smith: So but –

Jonathan Fields: And it’s funny because like that was who I was and you know, I had a big following in that class. Because I was the dude who was just like out there being real in a very cruel world. And it’s funny that I hadn’t really been willing to go all the way there in my online persona.

Julien Smith: You just went there by the way.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah, I know.

Julien Smith: And if this is your content — I mean –

Jonathan Fields: I know.

Julien Smith: But your –

Jonathan Fields: And as soon as this video comes out, they’re like that’s it.

Julien Smith: Like…

Jonathan Fields: Oh my god…

Julien Smith: You know what might actually happen, Jonathan? Nothing.

Jonathan Fields: Or — Yeah.

Julien Smith: Not a fucking thing will happen.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: And then when that happens, you’ll be like, “Oh, I see, so that’s all it is.” And so all you get is this — I mean you can either do it like I said five years from now whatever that barrier is I don’t even care if it’s swearing. For me it’s swearing. People say I can’t swear it’s unprofessional, all this stuff. I’m like fine. But there is a line and you need to push past that line and that’s the only point at which people start to think that you’re interesting and different. Aaron Wall –

Jonathan Fields: Yes.

Julien Smith: — super famous search marketer. I was in search marketing for a while, said you need a strong editorial voice inside of your space. And so it doesn’t matter how boring your industry is. I don’t care of its blend tech. It’s a strong editorial voice.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: You really find out and you push the envelope whatever it is and that’s why people love content that’s boring.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: ‘Cause you can go through the post and be like, it’s really interesting lots of information but so what, people ignore it.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. I think the voice matters so much. All right. That’s very cool. Okay. So one last really just super — Like a very practical question to end this on actually ’cause we’ve been going at this pretty long here.

Julien Smith: Yeah.

Jonathan Fields: So just pure straight up.  One of the concerns that a lot of bloggers have and content creators have is this going to get through the spam filters. You know, like is this going to kill my traffic because nobody is going to be able to read it anywhere.

Julien Smith: Uh-huh.

Jonathan Fields: Have you sort of explored that or had issues with that?

Julien Smith: Well, I mean it’s — You know what to tell you the truth, I haven’t really thought about it. But it’s — I think the majority of the traffic if I look at it now comes from email or RSS or Twitter. which are generally like the pretty savvy people –

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: — that have sophisticated spam filters and not the crappy, I don’t know, Live.com ones or whatever they are, you know?

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: I don’t — I see a significant increase in traffic and again like I’m not telling people to swear.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. Right.

Julien Smith: This is just — I decided a long time ago that I was going to have a really personal online voice and I have — I’m not beholden to anyone. I don’t have consulting fees. I do — I mean, you know, I do get paid by these things. But if all those things go away I’m not all of a sudden like, oh no, I have no marketable skills. Like it just turns out that the more that you speak to your audience in a general way… You know, what I really figured out is this. Is the more the content sounds like you getting drunk on a Friday night –

[0:25:26]

Jonathan Fields: [Laughs]

Julien Smith: — with a bunch of your friends and it’s 4 o’clock in the morning and someone is slamming the piano and another guy is rolling around the ground for no reason and then somebody said something and they say something and everybody cracks up and they’re like ha-ha-ha, that’s your content.

Jonathan Fields: Hmm, god that’s pretty funny.

Julien Smith: That’s your content right there and nobody is willing to go there. They think that they can only go there with two or three people, wrong. The whole internet wants this.

Jonathan Fields: Right.

Julien Smith: That’s why — Again, Gary V, he noticed.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah.

Julien Smith: They want to hear the real shit.

Jonathan Fields: Yeah. Totally. And I think that’s a good place to end it on also; they want to hear the real shit.

Julien Smith: Yeah. And so that’s it.

Jonathan Fields: Dude, where can — Most of the internet already knows who you are and where to find you, but for the people who don’t, where can people find you?

Julien Smith: I have a blog at inoveryourhead.net. I’m @julien on Twitter and… I don’t know. I mean you can find me anywhere, email me, Google me, whatever it is you want.

Jonathan Fields: Awesome, man. Very cool.

Julien Smith: I had a good time.

Jonathan Fields: Yes, thank you. This is awesome. Take care.

Julien Smith: See you later.

———————END INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT———————

So. What do YOU think???

How much of your real-life-with-friends persona do you share online?

And why?

[FTC Disclosure - You should always assume that pretty much every link on this blog is an affiliate link and that if you click it, find something you like and buy it, I'm gonna make some serious money. Now, understand this, I'm not talking chump change, I'm talking huge windfall in commissions, bling up the wazoo and all sorts of other free stuff. I may even be given a mansion and a yacht, though honestly I'd settle most of the time for some organic dark chocolate and clean socks. Oh, and if I mention a book or some other product, just assume I got a review copy of it gratis and that me getting it has completely biased everything I say. Because, books and other stuff are like a drug to me, put one them my hand and you own me. Ethics be damned! K, you've been warned. Huggies and butterflies. ]

Photo of Julien Smith By Frédéric de Villamil

I’m deep into the final edits on my next book (hoping to be able to reveal the name and cover at some point soon). Busy plotting and scheming a few new and re-envisioned ventures and recently returned from Austin, Texas, where the internet was on spring break.

And, I wanted to share a few cool things with you.

1. Fear.less Magazine.

Last year, my friend and creative genius, Ishita Gupta, started a very cool online magazine called fear.less. It’s about staring fear in the face, owning up to it, then reaching out and grabbing what you want even if your knees are shaking (what, I’m the only one with shaky knees?). Each monthly issue is interview driven and often chock full of beautiful images.

Past issues have featured luminaries like Steve Pressfield, Pema Chodron, Po Bronson, Jen Louden, Jacqueline Novogratz, Susan Piver, Guy Kawasaki, Seth Godin, Thich Nhat Hanh, Tim O’Reilly and others.

And here’s where it gets nutty, I’m guessing Ishita must have temporarily lost her mind, because the just-out March issue features, um, er, uh…me!

In a giant interview and on the cover even. As you guys already know, (a) I’m not that pretty, and (b) I’m still very much on the journey to figuring out which way is up. Still, I’m so honored to be featured in this wonderful publication and resource for those on a quest to lean more deeply into life.

You can download the entire issue here. Doesn’t cost a dime.

2. SXSW a/k/a Spring Break for the Internets.

Every year, the city of Austin, Texas is overrun with geeks (me, being one of them).

What started out as a legendary music festival, South By Southwest or SXSW has now grown into a massive music, film and interactive festival and conference. And for the second year in a row, interactive has been the largest of the three. Numbers I heard kicking around were 20,000 people for interactive alone.

I’ve had the honor of speaking there two years ago and was again invited to speak this year with my good friend and co-presenter, Chris Guillebeau, the author of The Art of Nonconformity.

Our topic was Fear and the Art of Creation. The session was supposed to be a core conversation, which means we make an opening statement, then essentially guide a conversation. The large room was set up with chairs in a circle and extra rows at the back and around the sides for overflow, with room for us to walk around in the middle.

Chris and I sensed there might be a lot of people, though, so we snuck in early and did a minor bit of re-arranging to create more of a “front” in the room. Glad we did. The crowd blew both of us away. What started as standing room only quickly turned into people seated (criss-cross apple sauce) rows deep on the floor on every side of the room.

The energy was amazing. Chris and I segmented the one-hour presentation, handing the mic off, telling stories, sharing some thoughts and asking a few questions. It’s always a bit of a dance when you co-present in more of a free-flowing format like that. I think we were both pretty nervous beforehand, especially once we saw the size of the crowd (okay, just speaking for myself here). I often get reasonably terrified before I speak, though once I settle in after the first few minutes, I love LOVE it.

SXSW had two cameras on us the whole time. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with the footage. But, they also designated our session to be “live-illustrated” through the Ogilvy Notes program. If you’ve ever seen live note-taking illustration before, it’s amazing to watch. An artist creates a graphic representation of your talk in real-time. Chris and I were both looking for the illustrator with a giant board, but turns out, she was sitting toward the back and did the entire thing by iPad. And it came out looking very cool.

You can check out the session illustration here.

And, if you’ve never heard Chris speak, you must. He’s one of the most genuine guys I know, really cares about people and it shows. And he’s also a wonderful storyteller with a lot of experience to share.

We were both incredibly grateful to those who came to support us.

3. Inc.com Live Chat

Last week, before heading down to the Lone Star state, I did a one-hour live-chat over at Inc.com. For those new to the format, it’s a live stream where I spend an entire hour answering questions from viewers from all around the world. It was an amazing experience. I started with a brief intro, shared the topics I thought might be interesting, then we were off to the races.

The conversation touched on everything from career change to entrepreneurship, handling fear and balancing interests. And it was great to see some familiar faces in the chat, like Adam Baker from ManvsDebt.com (who also happens to be touring the country in an RV for the next 6 months with his wife and daughter).

Questions started flying into the chat section, then the great team at Inc.com would curate and feed to me to answer. Felt kind of like a freight train rolling. I blinked and the hour was up, even though the question continued to fly in.

Anyway, the entire thing was recorded and you can watch it here.

In fact, it was so much fun, I’m considering doing something like that here on maybe a monthly basis.

Feel free to chime in in the comments if that’s something that’d interest you.

Today, I want to turn to another element of writing that really matters. But that you can’t see.

Rhythm and flow.

Writing has its own pace. Its own energy.

And, what so many writers never really get, especially those writing for digital media, is that readers respond not just to what’s on the page. Not just to what’s left to be filled in by the reader’s experience. But to the cadence and ease with which a writer moves them through the text, the story.

While researching the book I’m working on right now, I stumbled upon another book that shared a fascinating 3-year experiment that was a direct hit for what I was writing about. The topic, the approach and the conclusions blew my mind. But it took me nearly three-months to get through it. Because it was written in an academic style that was much more concerned with conveying information in an accurate, linear, logical progression than it was guiding the reader along an intriguing quest of discovery.

Rhythm and flow, worked well, help turn rote delivery of information into the breathless pursuit of the next sentence. Rhythm and flow, worked poorly, make interesting content brutal to read.

So, how do you create gorgeous rhythm and flow?

There’s no easy answer.

For some it comes naturally. For most, not so much.

It’s the effect of labor and attention over years. That’s certainly the boat I’m in.

And, it comes into play on both a sentence-by-sentence basis and a sense of flow across an entire work.

My approach is to write as closely to the way I speak as possible. Because I’ve found my readers respond best when my language patterns mimic my speech patterns. That assumes I can speak and tell stories reasonably well (yeah, yeah, I know, we’ll leave that for another conversation, lol). It also may mean consistently breaking many of the most-revered pillars of grammar. Like starting a sentence with the word like. Or because. Splitting infinitives with relish. And shredding into sentences midstream with and or but.

And, in the bigger picture of a longer work, it means being constantly aware of the broader pace of things.

Noah Lukeman, in his fabulous book, The First Five Pages, shared some wonderful insights on the topic in the chapter entitled “Pacing and Progression.” where he asks:

The manuscript might be fine, but does it read?

Lukeman’s insights on the issue include:

• Pacing and progression are difficult to self-edit. Ask a small number of trusted readers for insight.
• If you must self-edit, take a few weeks off to allow you a fresher perspective, then read through the entire work in one sitting to get a feel for the full ebbs and flows.
• In areas where things are too slow, ask if there is enough at stake, if you’ve got solid beginning and ending points but the middle plods, if you’re telling too much and showing too little.
• If it’s too fast, ask if you’re avoiding an inability to fill in the gaps or using dialogue (that speeds pace) in place of more artful, gradual building.

These are just a few things to think about.

If you’ve never read Lukeman’s book, by the way, get it now.

Curious, how do YOU work with issues of rhythm, flow, progression and pace when you blog or create longer works?

And, how aware of it are you when you read what others write?

Share away in the comments, let’s all learn…

Listen to her words, watch her energy as she speaks.

Fifteen years ago, she was unknown to the world, a young divorced mother living near poverty. In this speech, you’ll see a glimpse into what took her from there to being the creator of a series of books that have sold more than 400 million copies, earned her over a billion dollars and created the opportunity for her to do what she’s here to do.

Highlights include:

“…why do I talk about the benefits of failure? Simply because failure meant a stripping away of the inessential. I stopped pretending to myself that I was anything other than what I was, and began to direct all my energy into finishing the only work that mattered to me. Had I really succeeded at anything else, I might never have found the determination to succeed in the one arena I believed I truly belonged. I was set free, because my greatest fear had been realised, and I was still alive, and I still had a daughter whom I adored, and I had an old typewriter and a big idea. And so rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life.

You might never fail on the scale I did, but some failure in life is inevitable. It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might as well not have lived at all – in which case, you fail by default.

Failure gave me an inner security that I had never attained by passing examinations. Failure taught me things about myself that I could have learned no other way. I discovered that I had a strong will, and more discipline than I had suspected; I also found out that I had friends whose value was truly above the price of rubies.

The knowledge that you have emerged wiser and stronger from setbacks means that you are, ever after, secure in your ability to survive. You will never truly know yourself, or the strength of your relationships, until both have been tested by adversity. Such knowledge is a true gift, for all that it is painfully won, and it has been worth more than any qualification I ever earned…”

“And many prefer not to exercise their imaginations at all. They choose to remain comfortably within the bounds of their own experience, never troubling to wonder how it would feel to have been born other than they are. They can refuse to hear screams or to peer inside cages; they can close their minds and hearts to any suffering that does not touch them personally; they can refuse to know.

I might be tempted to envy people who can live that way, except that I do not think they have any fewer nightmares than I do. Choosing to live in narrow spaces leads to a form of mental agoraphobia, and that brings its own terrors. I think the willfully unimaginative see more monsters. They are often more afraid.

What is more, those who choose not to empathize enable real monsters. For without ever committing an act of outright evil ourselves, we collude with it, through our own apathy…”

“If you choose to use your status and influence to raise your voice on behalf of those who have no voice; if you choose to identify not only with the powerful, but with the powerless; if you retain the ability to imagine yourself into the lives of those who do not have your advantages, then it will not only be your proud families who celebrate your existence, but thousands and millions of people whose reality you have helped change. We do not need magic to change the world, we carry all the power we need inside ourselves already: we have the power to imagine better.”

The speakers were world class, including people like Charlene Li, Jim Collins, Al Gore, Jack Welch, Steve Levitt, Nando Parrado, James Freakin’ Cameron, Martin Lindstrom. All were charged with not only holding the attention of, but mesmerizing the audience of 5,000 CEOs and top-level business leaders from around the world.

The content was, for the most part, fabulous (which I rarely say coming away from a conference), but the real gift for me was the chance to absorb how the best real-content (not schtick-fest buy-my-stuff hawkers) presenters own a stage and inspire an audience the size of Radio City.

I took notes on some of the content, more on that in a later post. But I also took notes on presentation technique and distilled it, along with some of my own awakenings, down to the following list of 10 things the best presenters had in common.

So, without further ado, here are my…

10 Commandments of Suck-Free Speaking

1. Give a damn – If you don’t they’ll know…and you’ll suck.

2. Tell great stories – Craft ones that engage, entertain, educate and inspire.

3. Practice…A Lot – With rare exception, speakers are made, not born.

4. Co-create the experience – Empower your audience to own and guide it.

5. Bullets kill – Use slides only to expand and illuminate, never as a crutch

6. Simplify – You don’t need to prove you’re smarter, they already know you’re not.

7. Be generous – It’s about them, not you.

8. Create a script – Then throw it away, the magic is in the process, not the product

9. Lean into the fear – It means it matters to you, that’s a good thing.

10. Focus and flit - Speak to one person at a time, then another, then another.

Bonus Commandment – Don’t be a butthead. Fly your freak flag, but not for affect and never out of arrogance or anger.

In this session we pick up with a question about what drives McKee, opening with the money-quote,

“bad writing really pisses me off,”

…and whirling along from there.

We dive deeper into his journey from story-crafter to story-teacher and explore whether he satisfies his performance Jones from presenting his acclaimed seminars.

McKee also shares how what started very humbly as a local course grew into the worldwide phenomenon that is Story, the seminars, the book and now the online venture.

If you’ve missed it, be sure to check out The McKee-Fields Story Sessions: Part 1

Stay tuned for Parts 3 to 6 and be sure to subscribe to the blog below so you don’t miss an episode.

And, here’s where we’d love your help…

Panel’s are chosen, at least in part, by…YOU! Pretty cool, right. Anyone can vote on whether a topic sounds cool enough to be added to the roster. And, we hope you agree this is a conversation that needs to be taken to a much deeper level. So…

If you think our panel deserves to see the light of day, we’d love your help.

Here’s the description…

Fear and The Art of Creation – Ever wonder what keeps so many people from launching a new endeavor or scaling a creative venture into something exponentially more impactful? More often than not, the answer isn’t a lack of ideas, money, a team or a plan…it’s far more primal. The answer is fear. Instead of brainstorming new ideas, in this session you will discover how to move from ideation to action, overcome the three greatest fears that hold creatives, artists and entrepreneurs back, and find a more stable path to success.

If this sounds cool to you, we’d love it if you’d head on over to the panel picker website and give it a “thumbs up” and maybe even share a comment (they’ll ask you to choose a user ID and password, but there’s no other commitment, it’s just to keep it fair and stop double-voting).

Thanks so much for helping to bring this conversation to even more people!

I have mixed feelings about speaking. I’m terrified before I go on. But, once I find my groove, I absolutely love it. And, I plan to grow the public speaking aspect of my “renegade biz-plan” fairly aggressively over the next year and a half (conference bookers, call me, lol).

The theme of TEDxCMU was “fearless.”

That was it. Just one word. And, that was all the guidance we got. Create a compelling talk having something to do with being fearless and deliver it in precisely 18 minutes, not a second longer. Those are the rules.

The venue was a beautiful 500 person lecture hall. The late CMU professor, Randy Pausch, gave his famed Last Lecture entitled Achieving Your Childhood Dreams in the very same hall. That presentation blew me away (as it did millions of others). So I felt an even deeper sense of responsibility to those who’d shown up. I was the lead-off speaker, which meant I was done first, but I also had the job of warming up the audience, made up predominantly of 500 college students…at 9am…on a Sunday morning.

The video was just posted, so, for those who’ve been asking (mom, sis and the guy at the deli)…

Whenever I look at footage of me speaking now, I tend to go immediately into critique mode and look at how much I did wrong or how many opportunities to connect I missed. At first I wondered if this was healthy, but my sense is that if you really want to become great at something, you’ve got to be willing to examine where you are now, deconstruct it, learn from it, then integrate what you’ve learned into future opportunities.

Interestingly, too, in the short months since I gave this talk, my ideas about fear and how to not only work with, but harness it have evolved in a number of ways. More to come on that.

Chris followed a bit later in the day. His talk was framed around the idea of fear and permission. And he shared some amazing stories that brought his ideas to life through his travels and volunteer work all over the world.

All in all, it was a wonderful day filled with many other great people and presenters. Special thanks to the volunteer team who organized the event and congrats to those who graduated! Be sure to check out the other sessions as they’re posted.

And, as always, I’d love to know your thoughts on the exploration of being fearless…